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Alan and Debbie
Oct 12, 2008 - 4:37PM
Drive belt
I am looking at fitting a T link belt to the alternator / water pump drive to replace the standard rubber Vee belt on our Perkins. Has anyone used one of these? I have found them on ASAP's web site but am not sure which size to go for. The 'red' version comes in a 9mm section but the dimension across the top of the standard Vee belt is nearer 11mm. The next size up is 13mm but I reckon that will be too wide. Any advice appreciated.
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Eric Richardson
Oct 12, 2008 - 6:13PM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Alan & Debbie
Not quite sure of the definition "T" link belt! if it's what I am used to it will be made up of a set of segments which clip together almost like a chain, these were handy to carry as emergency vee belts, because you just purchased a length of link belt and hooked up the number of links to suit the length required. They never had the life expectancy of a proper vee belt or delivered quite as much drive.
The Perkins engines seemed to come with two different belt sections, the majority were A, but just a few had the wider B section. A vee belt should never bottom in its groove, as it is intended to drive on the side of the belt wih the wedge action preventing slip on a correctly tensioned belt.
Link belts were also designated as A, B, etc
Hope this helps.
Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Alan Kilner
Oct 13, 2008 - 12:35PM
Re: Drive belt
Eric
Many thanks. I am going this route as my belt needs frequent adjustment (every 8-10 hours). I think it is because the geometry of the adjustment arm doesn't seem right. It is a crude welded fabrication in an L shape rather that a curve and so does not offer a very finite amount of adjustment. In fact I think that there is a slight mis-alignment of the alternator pulley because of it. It is also horrible to adjust as the nuts are very obstructed. My engineering colleages are going to fabricate me a new bracket this winter once I have stripped a few things out to get some measurements. I neglected the adjustment this summer and the belt jumped off in the middle of Harwich approaches. Took me 15 minutes of straddling a hot Perkins to get the spare on so I started thinking of a link belt for emergencies. I'll get the small size from ASAP and offer it up before I fit it.
Sorry to have missed you at Walton earlier this year but you both made Deb's day having some one to show 'her' Star Dog off to. Hope to catch up with you all at the Elstead next year.
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Eric Richardson
Oct 13, 2008 - 1:05PM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Alan
We had a great day, well looked after on Stardog, shall have to arrange a get together on the rivers one fine day.
Re the vee belt, do a double check to make sure it's the correct section and not bottoming or riding to high in the slot as it should not be much trouble if correctly tensioned. I know tensioning can be a sod to get right. When Dr Lodge owned Solway Dog he modified the mouting and used a bottle screw from a bracket to tension the belt, previously he had complained of only about 50 hours/belt. After that he ran them for several years.
Regards Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Alan and Debbie McKilnerhone
Oct 14, 2008 - 2:48PM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Eric
I'm begining to wonder if I have the right profile belt. I inherited a new belt with Star Dog and bought a spare to the same reference - 10F 1163. But I may just be continuing a mistake! There is always a lot of dust shed from the belt and as I said previously it needs frequent adjustment. I'd like to take it back to basics. How do you establish the correct A or B profile? I assume that it is a combination of measurements from the pulley.
Regards
Alan
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Eric Richardson
Oct 14, 2008 - 10:12PM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Alan
The easy way to sort out belt profile is to get a bit of plastacine, it needs to be a bit stiff. Push it firmly into the pulley groove to get the profile and cut a small section through it so that you can get an accurate profile of the pulley.
An A section vee belt measures 13mm wide at the top and 8mm deep.
whilst a B section measures 17mm wide at the top and 11mm deep.
If you check these measurements against your pattern you can see that the belt needs to sit in the pulley groove far enough to be secure, but must not be able to bottom in the groove as all drive is done from the sides of the belt with a wegde action.
Pulley alignement is also critical and I have sometimes found that altenators are wrongly mounted on their brackets pushing them forward or aft, The best way to check this is with a straight edge across the faces of two pulleys making visual allowance for any difference in flange thickness. ie a pressed steel alternator pulley and a cast iron engine or water pump pulley.
Problems sometimes occur when people fit a different altenator which may have a different dimension from mounting bracket to pulley centre, often this can be sorted by the use of a few washers as packers.
I always buy vee belts from industrial sources they are usualy better quality than motor spares shops, also cheaper.
Regards Eric
Give me a ring if you wish.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Alan and Debbie
Oct 16, 2008 - 6:25PM
Re: Drive belt
Thanks Eric,
We are aboard this weekend so I'll take a closer look and let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Alan
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Alan and Debbie
Oct 20, 2008 - 10:42PM
Re: Drive belt
Eric
checked! the belt that was fitted and which I had spares of was a skinny deep vee thing which probably explains the dust and need for constant adjustment. I have binned all of the "spare" belts on board and fitted an A section belt in accordance with your advice and the dimensions from the pulleys. Sits much better and so far (three hours) doesn't need adjusting! Many thanks.
Have a pal who is renovating a 1938 Silver Gentlemans yacht at the yard which conveniently has two! very accessible Perkins 4107 engines. So I was able to get a decent measurement for the adjuster. Mine is rubbish! Will be getting the "engineering department" to look at the problem very soon. They love my old Perkins, it challenges them far more than the modern stuff they are given to work on. You should see how they rebuilt the heat exchanger.
Hope you are well, we have just had a great weekend on board, nothing too adventurous but lots of chilling out. Have just confirmed the Elstead and are looking forward to seeing you all.
Regards
Alan and Debbie
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Eric Richardson
Oct 21, 2008 - 10:09PM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Alan
Thanks for letting me know, When you get the new bracket sorted so that you can maintain tension I think the problem will be completely sorted.
Regards Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Jan K
Oct 23, 2008 - 5:08PM
Re: Drive belt
Do you have Fram (or other manufactures) part numbers for the 'A' and 'B' type belts?
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Gina
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Eric Richardson
Oct 24, 2008 - 8:56AM
Re: Drive belt
Hi Jan
No I do not have a part number! there will be quite a variety of different length belts fitted. The part number is usually made up of the length and section plus something to denote the maker. The lengths will differ dependant on the alternator fitted and it's mounting brackets.
If you take your existing belt to an industrial belt supplier he will put it on a measuring jig to get its length.
You will find belt suppliers in Yellow Pages. In my experience Fenner seem to make the best belts, they have a web site, just enter Fenner Vee Belts and you get a few choices and supplier details.
Hope this helps.
Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Alan and Debbie McKilnerhone
Oct 24, 2008 - 1:47PM
Re: Drive belt
Jan
I don't have the part number to hand but the way I went about it was to establish the correct section by measurement, (see Erics earlier post), measure the O/S dia around the pulleys (Allowing for adjustment both ways)in my case 1.5m and source a belt from an engineering outlet (French Marine in my case). Hope this helps.
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