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Steve Abbott
Nov 6, 2007 - 12:04PM
Would like opinions about replacement engine
Dear All
We feel that it's time for our Perkins 4107 to go - it's rusty, difficult to start; the engine mounts have perished; it's prone to cutting out at speeds above about 1400rpm (you can imagine how useful that is!). Basically, we have our hearts in our mouths whenever we turn the key, and need the peace of mind that comes with reliability. We've decided that spending (further) good money on a 40 year-old engine is merely delaying the inevitable, and feels like throwing good money after bad.
So, which engine? Because the boat's in Greece, the ideal choice appears to be Yanmar. They're the most popular out there, which means that spares, parts and expertise are commonplace, whereas makes like the Beta are rare, and elicit looks of uncomprehension, accompanied by much shrugging of shoulders. Also, anecdotally, I've been impressed by their reliability.
The model suggested is the 3YM30, which is rated with a maximum output of 30HP. Do you think that this enough for our heavy old triple-keel SeaDog?
Has anyone fitted a Yanmar, and had problems - with the engine, or the fitting?
Is there anything that I ought to know, good or bad?
If I'm changing the engine, I'm assuming that I ought to change the fuel tanks at the same time (they're original, mild steel, and rusty). Rather than going to the expense of putting 2 tanks in, I wondered whether it might be a reasonable idea to have only one tank, and have a shelf built on the other side, to which I could move my batteries, and also store my jerrycans of spare diesel (and anything else that's heavy) in order to provide balance to the one fuel tank on the other side.
Is that a good idea? What size of tank would you recommend - if I had only 1 tank, or ultimately went for the 2?
Would appreciate the opinions of all of you with the knowledge & experience, and thanks in anticipation.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Arethusa
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Graham Matthews
Nov 6, 2007 - 2:15PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Hi Steve,
The Yanmar may be a good engine, I have no experience with them. Make sure you check the price of spares (don't even consider a Volvo!)
I can however highly recomend the BetaMarine 37.5 and I know several other boatowners (SeaDog and non SeaDog) who have also had a very positive experience with them. I have checked the Betamarine website (www.betamarine.co.uk) and there are 2 main dealers in Greece that may be able to help you, one of them has a website in English (unfortunately down until next week) http://www.xanthis.com.gr/
Yes you will want to get the fuel tanks out at the same time. You may find that although rusty they are basicly sound and just need a good clean and paint with zinc or simillar. If you replace the tanks then strongly suggest that you add a proper breather to the top and consider a modern fuel take-off through the top as well. Retain a drain-off point as well though.
The Betamarine is based on a Kubota block so most parts can be obtained through Kubota agents worldwide at very reasonable prices. All other parts are available from Betamarine by mail-order or through local agents. These also seem to be reasonable.
Regarding the space that could be created by dispensing with a tank you may want to consider extending one of the cockpit lockers down into it?
We find the large fuel capacity very reassuring on Dougal due to the large range under engine it gives us. Cheap fuel bought in the channel islands lasts well into our Brittany cruise.
good luck with whatever you decide.
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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eric
Nov 16, 2007 - 5:34PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
hello steve ,yes i was of the same opinion the engines are tyred,and becoming untrustworthy,and my boat is the first built so it was high time it was changed,i looked at two engines 1.8 ford escort and 2.5 ford transit,and in my opinion the 2.5 was the better option,plenty of power and fits like a glove,it took me a few weeks to fit but was well worth it,with a prop of 17 + 16 it it moves though the water at a lot less rev's and at the full hull speed of 7 knots,and if i want to go faster it will although it will start to bury the stern,if you have a look on boatsandoutboards.co.uk under seadogs you will see a photo of glass lady and the engine in situe,the cost was about 2,700 to marinise all from lancing marine,hope this give you somthing more to ponder on,let us know how you go on
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) glass lady
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Eric Richardson
Nov 21, 2007 - 7:10PM
Re: Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Hi Steve
I share Grahams views on this, the Beta engine is a Kubota very widely used in small diggers and dump trucks. Is widely regarded as Paddy proof in the building trade. The 37.5hp is ok for the seadog and Beta Marine will fit the Borg Warner box of your perkins engine if you wish to save money and that
is the best gearbox made. Which ever engine you chose there is a lot to be said for an hydraulic gearbox. PRM make a good one which is available on the Beta. I would stick with two fuel tanks, I had to make new ones for Taliesin they had corroded through due to condensation, the tops being the area that failed. I found that there was room but only just to fit two 100amp hour batteries on the starbrd side between the fuel tankand the engine. Whilst thetanks were out I made a calorifier which was the same shape as the tank and fitted it just aft of the starbrd fuel tank. I also removed the drain valve from the diesel water seperator and replaced it with a 1/4" dia copper pipe led to a valve under the sink in the galley so that I could easily drain out any water into a milk bottle, this proved very useful when a crew member decided to swill the decks whils I was fueling up. I should mention that the new tanks kept the fillers in the lockers for the dipstick but I fitted fillers on the side decks to ease filling up.
Best regards Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Eric Richardson
Dec 14, 2007 - 2:37PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Hi Steve
One very important point which I forgot to mention when looking at suitable engines. Do not go for an overhead camshaft unit unless the cam is chain or gear driven.
The last thing you want on a Seadog is a cam belt on the front of the engine, it will mean the engine out every five years to change the belt as I beleive it could not be done in situ.
Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Mike
Dec 14, 2007 - 5:32PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Re camshaft belt change. My boat was fitted with a 1.8XLD Ford job and I insisted the owner changed the belt before I bought the boat. In turn, he got a Ford mechanic to do it. Albeit the job was difficult - he did it in about 30 minutes in situ - so no worries. I find the 60 hp of the engine more than enough - but you do need a different prop from standard to keep the revs down. If you're changing the gearbox - might be better to get a more direct ratio
Incidentally, the XLD 1.8 seems to be very popular in marine circles and is one of the core engines marinised by Lansing - always a good indication in my opinion. Also bits are very easy to obtain. Sorted mine out via the local Ford dealer!
But its quite a big engine in the space and skills akin to those of a brain surgeon are required to change the water pump bits and cam belts. But it can be done in situ !
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Jacarah
Graham Matthews
Dec 14, 2007 - 5:57PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Very happy with our BetaMarine and would recomend but if you are interested found this brochure on www.lancingmarine.com re the Ford http://www.lancingmarine.com/FordXLDLP.pdf
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Chris Wherry
Dec 15, 2007 - 5:10PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Hi Steve
If it is of any help I made the same decision about Michciko about 8 years ago and refitted using a Perkins Perama 3 cylinder engine.
The boat was sold 3 years ago but up to then I never had a moments problem and was amazed at the better performance over the 4107. We typically used only 1/2 gal per hour at aroud 6.5 knots and could get to 7 at as little as 1700 RPM.
If you have access to the newsletters - I wrote a complete detailed account of the refit. If not let me know and I will look it up when I get home in mid Jan and send you a copy.
It was not easy as the engine bearers had to be modified, the fuel and exhaust positions where different and the crankshaft rotation was oppposite requiring a new prop as well. I still never regretted the work.
Let me know if I can assist.
Chris
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Michciko 2
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Eric Richardson
Dec 19, 2007 - 6:52PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Hi Steve
Felt I should put the following on to the forum.
Re the note about the Perkins Perma. About 15yrs ago I recommended one of these to a friend with a Nicholson 32. He has had excellant service from it and I have been with him on a trip to Holland and it was able to maintain max hull speed with no problems. However the Seadog is a bit harder to push although it can do it. That fits in with my next comment.
The question of horse power is important and does need a bit of thinking about. When Reg Freeman picked the Perkins 4 107 he did it not just because they were a good reliable engine but because it was sufficiently poweful to attain hull speed without digging the transom in to no gain, and only creating more wash.
A diesel engine needs to work hard if you are to prevent glazing of the bores. This in turn reduces efficiency and causes high oil consumption so in terms of which engine to fit there is nothing to gain from excess horse power as around 35/40 is as much as you can use on the Seadog.
Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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anthony george kearney
Jan 15, 2008 - 1:57PM
Re: Would like opinions about replacement engine
Well the 4107 was a bit of a mess and replaced by the 4108. I have the latest 4108 with the fresh water coolong jacket . Mine is completely overhauled and the parts came from germany! What ever engine you choose make sure the timing is gears and not some sort of pully. Also try to match electrical wiring and water pipes to the engine. You don't want to have to drill holes and fill in others
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