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Mark Hildich
Apr 19, 2009 - 4:57PM
Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
I finally managed my first trip of the season on Thursday and was looking forward to this weekend.
However, on going through my engine checks yesterday, found that the engine appeared to be empty of oil and the bilges swimming in the stuff
I've spent the weekend attempting to clean the bilges and find out where the oil has come from, but despite running the engine alongside, hanging upside down, peering in mirrors, I cannot locate the source.
Does anyone have any suggestions before I resort to removing the engine?
Help Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Philip Ellis
Apr 19, 2009 - 8:08PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi Mark,
Sorry to hear of your oil loss, it does leave an awful mess to clean up.
Firstly before considering removal you have to find the leak whilst you can run the engine. Assuming it has been refilled with straight SAE 30 engine oil and the dipstick is in place, If still fitted I would look very closely at the oil cooler pipes that connect between the block and the cooler which is probably sited to starboard of the bowman heat exchanger. These pipes can and do fail.Next is the oil cooler itself check for leakage around the body and that the tie rod has not become loose or the cap nut has failed.
These are probably the most likely cause of sudden large scale oil loss.
For you to loose all the oil it would seem reasonable to think this has occurred with a running engine i.e. it was pumped out under pressure.
After that you are looking at , oil prssure gauge pipe failure, front main crankshaft seal or push rod cover loose etc, but the evidence should be there!
Keep looking,
Hope this helps
Philip
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Glyfada ex Natuna
Mark Hildich
Apr 19, 2009 - 8:14PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi,
Thanks for the info, indeed the oil was lost from a running engine. The oil cooler pipes were my first thought, but cannot see any evidence of loss from that area. Will check the other things you suggest.
regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Alan and Debbie
Apr 20, 2009 - 4:19PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Mark
sorry to hear of your troubles. You've probably thought of it but when I needed access to sort out fuel pipes, filters and get at the electrics I found that by removing "non gasket" items first, alternator, batteries etc it was possible to get at much more of the engine than you'd think. Indeed I now take off the heat exchanger (one gasket and 20 mins work) to access / check the raw water pump each year rather than struggle through the bulkhead hatch. Hope you get it sorted without too much pain.
Regards
Alan and Deb
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Star Dog
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chris everall
Apr 20, 2009 - 10:32PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
could also be something as simple as oil filter seal also check oil filter housing to block bolts,cleaning bilge, use washing gell bags same as you use in washing machine two buckets hot water then submerged power washer lance this does wanders when emulcified add more hot water and keep lance submerged when pumping out, if in water use eletric pump and pump into suitable container best of luck.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) sarah noell II
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John Lansdell
Apr 21, 2009 - 9:48PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
If, as suggested, it is the bolt on the end of the heat exchanger which has failed, I have 4 spares made in stainless steel.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Twotails
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Mark Hildich
Jun 19, 2009 - 5:48PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Faced with another weekend struggling with the Perkins as well as flakey electrics instead of sailing. I have bitten the bullet and done what I should have done at the begining of the season and am going to get my engine replaced.
I'm now looking at a Volvo D2/55 or a NANNI 60hp, does anyone have any recommendations between these two?
Regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Graham
Jun 19, 2009 - 7:06PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Sorry to hear of your continued problems.
Before you make any decision on those engines please have a word with BetaMarine, or even better visit the factory and get the tour.
I would certainly never have a volvo myself, the price of spares is enough to prevent me, and the non-availabilty of stuff other than from official agents too.
60hp sounds way to much for a SeaDog anyway, 37.5 seems more than enogh to me, any more and the engine will be ticking over rather than working most of the time (never a good idea).
I think your SEaDog used to be 'Highlander'?
If so please make sure that the installation of the new engine regresses some of the modifications made. In particular the removal of the split propshaft and the relocation of the parsons box.
regards
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Mark Hildich
Jun 19, 2009 - 10:09PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi,
I agree with your assessment of the power, been sitting here this evening running through the calculations and from that, I think that my upper limit will be 45hp.
Armed with this and some more info, I'm off tomorrow to negotitate with the yard. I also don't think I'll bother with volvo either.
I'm proberly going to go with either the Nanni or Beta, both are based on Kubota and as far as I've managed to find out there is not much between the two. So it will all come down to what is the best deal.
You are correct, Sulis was Highlander. Don't know about the Parsons Box or the split shaft, but the other work I intend to do, is re-vamp the electrics and replace the cockpit drain gate valves. Aside from cleaning/repainting bilges.
Rgds Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Eric Richardson
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:24AM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi Mark
If you do all the Calcs on engine size you will find Reg Freeman was about right at 36hp at 3000rpm. The Beta 37.5HP engine is an ideal replacement and they are better to deal with than Nanni.
Fitting a bigger engine is no advantage as speed is limited by water line length to around (1.4 root WL)
If you intend to do it yourself give me a ring as there may be some help available from Beta on a special Seadog Owners Association price. Obviously this does not apply if a dealer is involved as he needs to look after himself on price.
Beta will also fit your Borg Warner Gearbox to their engine and thats the best box there is and it reduces the price.
Re the exhaust I would suggest that you do away with the Parsons box and go for a fully wet system, Vetus do all the bit's and there is a good drawing in their cataloge.
Regards Eric
Graham
Jun 22, 2009 - 11:41AM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi Eric,
Full support what you say about the Vetus exhaust components, we did this and no regrets.
I mentioned the modufications because I had heard that the 'split' shaft had been replaced by a straight through without any anti-vibration uvj or similar. Also someone told me that the parsons box on Highlander had been located onto the exhaust manifold! Causing it to split (also way too low down of course).
regards
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Eric Richardson
Jun 29, 2009 - 3:30PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi Mark
A long overdue thought. Whilst the engine is out what some owners have done to help when pumping the bilge etc is to build up the floor level at the front of the bilge by about 2" just leaving the back few inches at the old level so that the bilge pump sits there and virtually pumps the bilge dry. I think they have done it by using a concrete mix, then glassing over this to keep it from getting wet and breaking up. It's also a good time to paint the bilge and check the fuel tanks out.
Regards Eric
Mark Hildich
Aug 23, 2009 - 6:38PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
The Perkins has been replaced by a Nanni 37.5HP. I have added a couple more pictures to the gallery, the first shows the awful mess that was left in the bilges after the removal of the Perkins. It took me hours to decontaminate the bilges which were heavily oiled. The second is the Nanni in situ. Why did I choose the Nanni? Well after investigation I decided that there wasn't much to choose between the Nanni and a Beta. They are both based on the Kubota/Toyota engine and in the end it came down to convenience and the deal I was offered. Sulis is now afloat, and I have much more confidence in the engine. I examined the Perkins after it was removed and the oil was leaking from the bell housing, so think it would have cost a lot to repair it and still would have been left with a nagging worry about the engine. Now am working on the electrics.
Regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Mark Hildich
Sep 3, 2009 - 6:00PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
The final stage. Finally last weekend I finished re-vamping the electrics in the engine compartment and switch box. I have put up a picture showing the old switchbox and the new set up.
The old wiring was a mess, the battery cable was not the correct type, the isolator had been bypassed by several odd cables direct to both batteries, and a number of choco block connectors wrapped in insulating tape well past its sell by date, were found. One of the deficiencies the surveyor found when I bought her, was that the GPS/echo sounder/VHF were not taken via the switch board, and consequently could not be isolated if required.
To carryout the new wiring, I ensured that I got the correctly rated cable and I also invested in a proper ratching crimp tool, which proved its worth, as now all connectors are crimped and then covered with a heatshrink sleeve, making them a lot stronger. Also I have ensured that the wiring loom is well supported and fixed in place, rather than the floating mess it replaced.
Two new battery isolator switches (to replace the one big round one) were added as close as practicable to the batteries and any connections which need to go direct to the battery (i.e: auto bilge pump) are now fused. This allows for complete isolation of batteries if required.
The big rotary switch for charging has now been replaced by a smart charging system using a relay. This monitors both batteries switching in the charge when the alternator is supplying power.
So far I am pleased with the result, I can now switch in/out the various systems as required and at a glance tell the battery state.
Now all I need to do is tackle the lump of wiring wrapped in gaffer tape, which is the electrical junction to the main mast.
Regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Graham
Sep 3, 2009 - 6:10PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi Mark,
I have made the picture 'live'.
Where are the batteries no? I know that they were relocated at one stage into the cockpit locker and I could not see them in the engine photograps uploaded earlier.
A small point was that we were advised to wire our GPS and VHF direct to the batteries (via inline fuses) so that in an emergency they were more likely to have juice. Actually I have since changed these back.
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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John Lansdell
Sep 3, 2009 - 7:55PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi! Re mast wiring.
Twotails mast wiring was in a state when we bought her so we replaced it entirely, with two cables from switch panel all the way to the masthead, in order to reduce voltage drop. But, following advice, the connection between mast and hull is now below deck, with a removeable piece of wood protecting the wires above the deck, well sealed with silicone! The original arrangement with plug on the deck meant they and the wires can be damaged when working round the mast, and this can lead to problems. The wire within the mast needs to have some means of preventing it clattering against the side of the mast when in a seaway. With ours we used 3 cable ties with long tails, spaced 120 degrees around the wire, every foot of the wires length and fed this into the mast. The wire does not support its own weight, but is attached to a cord at several points along its length. The cord is protected from chafe where it is attached at the mast head. If anyone is interested to see a picture of the wiring at the foot of the mast and above the washbasin, let me know.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Twotails
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Mark Hildich
Sep 3, 2009 - 10:58PM
Re: Engine Oil Loss -- Perkings 4107
Hi,
Originally, the engine start battery was in the starboard side cockpit locker and the domestic battery located alongside the engine. Neither battery was properly secured (another point picked up by surveyor)
I relocated the engine start battery to the portside locker (shorter cable run to starter motor) and put the domestic battery in the starboard locker.
Both batteries are now in their own boxes, and are solidly secured.
I put the batteries in the lockers, basically for ease of maintance and access, plus to keep them well away from any catastrophic flooding.
I too have seen the recommendation about connecting the VHF direct to the battery via fuses. But as a matter of course I sail with a handheld as backup (and its handy to use when coming into the marina). So decided to stick with going via the switchboard for the VHF.
Sulis does have a plotter, but its an old one (one black and white line drawing etc) and at the moment I have yet to find a source for a chart of the Severn Estuary. Besides I like to plot manually, so didnt consider any special treatment for the GPS.
Mast electrics.
At the moment, the only working light on the mast is the steaming light, the trilight, anchor and deck lights are u/s. I am planning to tackle this later, when I shall have to drop the mast and sort all the wiring out. However, the wiring in the heads is suspect, as I said the loom there is wrapped in gaffer tape... Its possible some of the problems lie there.
Regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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