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On the way back to Gosport from Cowes today and we had a sudden clunk and total loss of steering.
Disappeared into the aft cabin with the emergency tiller and while attaching it noticed that the ball joint near the rudder post had dropped off. I pushed it back together and lashed it up with cable ties, then proceeded back to one of our club pontoons. After we were safely tied up I took another look and saw that the ball and socket had dropped apart again and we had steered in using the cable ties alone!
Would appreciate any advice on what to do next, we are on this pontoon today and tomorrow but should be off it on Wednesday. Can the rod be removed in either direction? Is there adjustment on the sockets or where should I seek a replacement?
thanks all
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Phil
Apr 25, 2011 - 10:26PM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Hi Graham
If your steering rod is the same as Soyakaze (#104) you don't need to remove the rod. Just release the lock nut, hold the rod with mole grips and unscrew the socket. The ball fitting is a little more difficult as it is on a taper shaft which must be pushed firmly into the taper hole in order to undo the castle nut, tap the shaft out after removing the nut (don't forget the split pin through the castle nut) make shure that when you tap the shaft out you have a support under the steering arm as you may have to tap it a bit hard.
The socket to ball fit is not adjustable but if you go to a proper car parts shop and they will find you a set. The ball joint set is common to a lot of British cars from the 60's (I havent measured it but it look identical to the joint on my Austin Mini.
Fitting the new set is easy just remember to get the lenght adjusted correctly (with the wheel centred) before you push the taper shaft into the taper hole.
Good luck
Phil
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Soyakaze
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Graham
Apr 26, 2011 - 6:36AM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Thanks Phil,
Very useful information, I will be giving it a go later today. Last night I accidentally unscrewed the fitting at the other end of the pipe whilst trying to remove the one at the aft end, should have used the mole grips :-(.
When you say 'proper car spares place' do you have any suggestions, I assume that Halfords would be a waste of time?
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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John Lansdell
Apr 26, 2011 - 8:19AM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Hi! I've got a puller for the removal of the tapered attachment of the ball joint from the socket in the steering rod. Let me know if you want it, can deliver (when I find it!)
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Twotails
Eric Richardson
Apr 26, 2011 - 4:21PM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Hi Graham
Best way to get the Taper out is as John says with a puller, but!! if stuck you need a good heavy hammer to hold in place on the heavy tiller and give the taper a crack with a hand hammer it will shift. I have also used a split steel wedge under the ball but its a bit special.
Another way is to remove the tiller arm, place the ball joint over a hole in anything solid not on the boat!!! and simply bash the screwed end hard, don't play with it just belt it, £5 says it will drop out first good hit. Take it to Halfords they should have them. Best change both ends now.
Give me a ring if you wish.
Eric
Graham
Apr 26, 2011 - 7:34PM
Update Steering Rod Failed
Parts now removed from both ends, thanks all, esp John for lending me the puller and driving me about this afternoon.
No luck so far in finding the parts needed but I am going to contact http://www.classic-spares.co.uk/trackrodends.asp
tomorrow, they claim to have 457 types in stock!
I will update when there is further progress.
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
Email
Phil
Apr 26, 2011 - 9:53PM
Re: Update Steering Rod Failed
Hi
I tried a puller on ours but found that I did not have the room to fit it, thats why I resorted to the birmingham screwdriver !
I also found Halfords unable to help, in the Lymington area we have a number of Motor Factors who supply to the repair trade. If you are still stuck call me.
Regards - Phil
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Soyakaze
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Graham
Apr 26, 2011 - 10:28PM
Re: Update Steering Rod Failed
Thanks Phil,
At the aft end I removed the 'tiller' and put it in a vice and applied the hammer. At the forward end I was just able to use the puller.
Will be trying the guy near Exeter tomorrow morning, not that far from Lymington here (gosport)
kind regards
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Graham
Apr 27, 2011 - 10:04PM
Re: Update Steering Rod Failed
OK,
Did a round trip to Exeter today, well worthwhile.
Visited http://www.classic-spares.co.uk/ and took the 2 track rod ends plus the tiller arm with me.
Very helpful guy there , Ian, rooted through his old editions of the Quinton Hazell catalogues and then through some of the boxes of parts he had there and eventually we came across what seems to be an exact match, I will be fitting tomorrow and will e able to confirm then.
The parts were QH part number QR20, rod fitting 5/8" 19TPI and they were specified for a number of vehicles, initially the 1947 Austin A40 (not the later hatchback one but the early rounded one) also the A70 from the same period and the Leyland 16cwt truck up to 1967 (this was the one used as a black mariah and ambulance most often.
It seems possible that not all SeaDogs have the same fittings, and Ian was able to help a NAB 35 owner only last week with a much larger set.
Hope all this helps someone one day, I bought the only set he had in stock for my needs but he was confident that he would be able to get some more in.
Other useful point was that he is able to offer a steering box repair and refurbishment service for any steering box, at auto prices not marine prices.
I will update this thread again when all fitted and working.
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
Email
Eric Richardson
Apr 28, 2011 - 10:31AM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Graham
A point I should have made which may be a bit late now. Getting the long steering rod out is a bit of a problem. I modified the one on Taliesin to make it easy, I cut it in half then screwed both cut ends and joined them using a heavy duty brass plumbing union, no need to worry about dezincification it should be dry in the locker. This made it a doddle to get out. I had to remove it in the first place because the threaded end where the track rod end fits had a loose thread caused by not tightening the lock nut. A boat yard job done for the previous owner. Cutting it made removal easy.
Any pipe fitter or half decent plumber will cut the threads on the pipe ends.
Eric
John Lansdell
Apr 28, 2011 - 3:00PM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Graham has located a supplier of track rod ends, the spherical ball joints at either end of the long rod from below the steering gearbox to the tiller arm. At present he is up to his elbows in the stern cabin fitting the new parts.
For everyones information the supplier was
Classic Spares
Ph & Fax No - 01 626 891 645
email - ian@classic-spares.co.uk
Ian Wonnacott, of Classic Spares, has a contact who overhauls and repairs car gearboxes and steering gearboxes. Since I'm sure the innards of our steering box comes from the motor industry, he may well be a most useful contact for anyone in trouble in this area.
Many thanks Graham, for tracking down this most helpful supplier.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Twotails
Graham
May 1, 2011 - 8:57AM
Re: Steering Rod Failed
Just to confirm that the parts have now been fitted and adjusted. All went well, not tried at sea yet but everything looks fine. Many thanks to all, and a mention to Cliff Moggeridge of www.winchservicing.com who put me on to the guy at classic spares.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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