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Mark Hildich
Sep 29, 2008 - 9:17PM
Considering Engine replacement
Hi,
After a frustrating weekend, I'm considering whether or not its worth replacing the Perkins 4107.
When it runs it smokes fairly badly and is using oil, thats when it runs, which it didnt last weekend.
Does anyone have any experience of this, and if so any recommendations?
Regards Mark
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sulis
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Graham
Sep 29, 2008 - 10:14PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi Mark,
Sorry to hear about your engine problems, hope you can get them sorted without resorting to major surgery. If you do decide to go for an update then I can recomend the Betamarine 37.5. Dougal has recently completed a second season with one of these and no problems so far. If you want a cheaper option I can probably do you a good deal on a sound Perkins 4108 that happens to be going spare!
regards
Graham
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Dougal
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Keith and Dorothy
Oct 3, 2008 - 10:15AM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi Mark,
We replaced the engine in our Seadog by ourselves last winter. After much consideration at the SIBS, we opted for a Vetus 4.33 as giving both the best value and the simplest DIY installation in a Seadog. Vetus also do an option for 'free-style' engine gauges and controls rather than them all being in a panel, so we were able to mount them in the console as per the Perkins.
The installation was very straight forward. We have only had one season's use so far, of course, but thus far we are very pleased with the Vetus. Feel free to contact us for more detailed information if it would help.
Keith
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Sea Lark
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Eric Richardson
Oct 4, 2008 - 6:41PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi Mark
Way back I did a survey of all the engines suitable for the Seadog on behalf of Peter French who was then secretary.
The Beta engine came out best in my opinion and Beta are prepared to fit your existing Borg Warner Velvet Drive gearbox to the engine. This box is without doubt the best box on the market. The alternative is a hydraulic box from another manufacturer. Do not fall into the trap of a cheaper mechanical box, they do not take happily to crash stops from full ahead to full astern which the velvet drive just takes in it's stride and remember the Seadog is a heavy boat.
Beta will make the engine feet to fit on to the existing bearers if given sufficient info. I also had an arrangement with Beta on behalf of the SOA whereby Ted Spash the then MD gave us a special discount, so if this is of interest I could follow it up for you again.
I found that none of the other manufacturers were as helpfull as Beta, or met the price when I checked this out with Beta.
Hope this is helpfull.
Eric Richardson
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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David
Oct 5, 2008 - 8:58AM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
At the risk of tempting fate - my 4107 is running ok!..........but, am curious as to ballpark figures to buy and fit a (new) replacement engine.
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Wayluya (ex Perro)
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Mark Hildich
Oct 8, 2008 - 6:26PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi,
Thanks for all the replies and info. Was particularly interested in Eric's message. I will be seeing an engineer to see if the Perkins can be resurrected, and will see what his opinion is. So will be following this up, and will leave feedback as to what happens next.
Regards Mark
Eric Richardson
Oct 8, 2008 - 7:36PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi Mark
There is no doubt that the Perkins can be sorted, they are almost indestructable. If you sort out a 4 108 from a scrap yard all the marinisation bits from the 4 107 fit. The only real differences are that the 4 108 does not have wet liners, and has 3/8inch cylinder hear studs allowing a higher torque setting which solved the blown head gaskets that were common in road vehicles, but almost unknown with the low power setting of the CAV pump in the Seadog application.
The most important part of this change is to ensure that the 4 107 oil pump and sump are used.
If you wish to discuss it give me a ring.
Regards Eric
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Ex Taliesin
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Steve Abbott
Oct 10, 2008 - 1:26PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
My boat is in Greece, where the recommended Beta unit is not really an option. My boatyard owner has also pointed out that although the idea of retaining the original gearbox (which is feasable with the Beta unit) is initially of interest, due to the reduction of cost, and the the consequent potential of retaining the prop shaft, prop, stern gland etc., the problem is that, although the Borg-Warner Velvetdrive is arguably the finest and most reliable box made, Borg-Warner have apparently not made a marine box for decades, and consequently, when spares are eventually needed (mine's 40 years old after all), they're essentially unobtainable.
It's fair to say that obviously the boat yard has an interest in their own solution, and they point out that if we were to go with the Beta engine/original gearbox option, they'd have to take out the box, shaft etc. when they remove the old Perkins anyway, so that there's not a great cost benefit. Whether this is strictly accurate, I'm not in a position to judge, but I see the benefit of taking the whole lot out, in which case replacing the stern gland makes a whole lot of sense in the circumstances, despite my limited financial resources. I'm also planning on getting rid of the (old & rusty) fuel tanks at the same time, and replacing with a single plastic one on the starboard side, and a "shelf" to port, on which I intend to move my batteries, and store spare fuel in jerrycans, to balance out the weight.
We're close to signing up for their solution, which is the Yanmar 3YM30 30hp unit, which, complete with gearbox, alternator and control panel comes in at a similar price to the Beta 37.5hp engine without the gearbox. Also, according to Eric's excellent posting elsewhere on this forum (Engine Horsepower Utilisation), 30hp seems to satisfy the initial worry that I had that it might not be powerful enough. Yanmar also have a very good reputation for reliability, fuel economy and quietness (an important consideration in my view, having had to shout above the noise of a Perkins!)
Just my two-pennorth for what it's worth!
SeaDog Name (if owner or crew) Arethusa
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Eric Richardson
Oct 10, 2008 - 1:57PM
Re: Considering Engine replacement
Hi Steve
You seem to have got it well summed up, If you do need Borg Warner spares last time I checked ASAP still carry all the bits. Do consider having a hydraulic box which I am sure Yanmar must make available as an option. Possibly a PRM
All the best with it, if you finish up with room to spare whilst the engine is out I suggest you consider fitting a calorifier they are easy to make and the hot water is handy.
Regards Eric
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